Hi All, Sarah also replied to me, as I guess she did to most who took the stime to mail her. I've now followed this up with what for me is the most important request.....

Hi Sarah,

One more thing....probably the biggest of them all when push comes to shove...The lake wall.

The lake wall is in a terrible state of disrepair, and has been neglected for years. We have been made aware that there has been money set aside by the council to repair the wall during the winter of 2008/2009. Now I don't know if this is either a. true or b. part of the redevelopment remit, however there is an extremely big opportunity here if the money is there.

The lake can get extremly packed on a windy day even now (...hence the _expression_ of horror regarding the potential loss of car parking spaces on the lake car park). Should the re-development be successful (and I'm assumming success = more punters = more revenue) then the sailing area will become 'unsailable' ie there is natural limit to the number of people who can/will sail on the current expanse of water. This is due in part to the speeds that windsurfers achieve (- it's analagous to the skies around airports, which to the layman look empty but due to the speeds of aircraft are actually 'full').

West Kirby Marine lake -in it's current form- will also never hold the world speedsailing record again. This is due to the length of course required to set the record (500m). In the days when the venue held the record the speeds being achieved where in the low 40knots range and therefore sailors had the space to get up to that speed and importantly slow down safely after completing the 500m course. Today the record is hovering just under 50knots and there simply isn't the length of course to get up that speed and slow slow down again at the end.

If there was any way in which the lake can be made bigger then the benefits will be huge...

- more capacity for waterborne craft of all kinds
- Longer runs for the speedsailors - which as has been said before increases the potential of the world record returnig to West Kirby.

At the end of the day most sailors would appreciate a bigger lake before all the bells and whistles that new building can offer in the way of comfort and refreshments...etc

Look forward to the consultation process.

Ian.

Yes it's me moaning again, but I can see why people are getting excited about the new facilities, however I don't see how anyone can get fully behind the project until the detailed designs are known.

Here are some points, please correct me if I'm wrong.

- The current design is low rise, mainly to provide a clear view to the hotel
- The current higher rise facility, although in poor condition has little impact on the wind as it's tucked away by the road
- Structures that extend out on the car park will have to placed on a raised platform level with the prom to avoid flooding
- Structures cannot be built too far out into the car par due to the risk of storm damage by the tide. Remember 1990, paving stones were ripped from the prom and the Warden's cabin floated off.
- Low rise developments will have a larger foot print than a higher rise devlopment, as they are single storey
- The council will have added extra requirements, above the current facilities
- I heard that Morrsions where quoted around £3,000,000 pounds for the carpark, which they wanted to buy, when they aquired Safeway. (Please correct me)

What does all this mean?

Extra facilities + a larger foot print = less car park + more windshadow. I lined up the current design overhead view with google earth and the outermost building occupies most of the area of the current turning circle. I would estimate the best height to be the same a the current changing rooms, when viewed from the car park (low rise?). I know that the designs are not finialised, however they must be an indication of the square feet required, and who knows they may need more, a lifeboat station could be included (see the West Kirby masterplan). There also does not seem to be any provision for boat parking.

On the other hand if it proves impossible to extend onto the carpark due to storm damage issues, then the faclities will have to reduced or be maintained at the current levels. For £3,000,000 this would not represent value for money. For this price I would expect gold taps in the changing room, and a free valet rigging service.

At the moment this is speculation, as their are no decent public plans, I appose the hotel but would like to see improvements to the lake.

This may sound a bit mad, but if it was down to me I would create a larger taller 3 storey buiding on the current site, so it would not create a windshadow. Faciliies would include, chanders/out door store, bar restaurant with panoramic views (including lower attached wet bar and out door terrace), sailing school briefing rooms, and all the current stuff + better rigging areas. Funding would be sourced by making a fair offer to Morisions to retain the car park, diverting money earmarked for unpopular projects(pedestianisation of the Cresent and Herring bone parking on the Prom would not be required), allowing the developer to lease out the bar in a great location, at a guess £2,000,000, other sources of Government funding should also be available. My guess is that the council would appose this idea, as there is less ratable value than a large scale development, however I don't think it would be apposed by the local population.

Robbie old fruit, relax. The design as you rightly say, has a Loooong way to go. As far as I'm concerned it's an artists impression at the moment nothin more - just an idea. I'll eat my smelly windsurfing boots if the planning app has even a remote similarity to the piccies we've seen....

I agree with a lot of your points regarding the design and I suspect if we make the right noises we can influence the design at this point. One thing you rightly point out though is that a view from the hotel will undoubtedly be a key aim of the developers.

p.s. If I lived in WK I'd be more concerned about the arrival of an ALDI than a 4 star hotel in the town. The 4 star hotel at least equals moneyed cliental who may spend money in the town. ALDI equals cut price food and people shoping on a budget. (you'll have all those tight ar*es from Caldy invading in their Chelsea tractors taking up even scarser parking spots

p.p.s. I firmly believe, as I've mentioned before, that the lake redevelopment is tightly _link_ed to the hotel...sink the hotel development...and wave goodbye to the lake redevelopment. Labour Councils will not provide facilities for what thay perceive as rich mans sports.

Ernie, beware I could end up with a massive hotel at the back of the house and a parking nightmare and the lake could end up with less facilities to protect the view. As the saying goes you can't fit a quart into a pint pot.

Actually I'm not too bothered about Aldi, so long as it does not result in a one way system. I think that the council may own one of the building on the Aldi site, more funds for plan B!

Also Wirral is in No Overall Control, athough the largest single group is labour.

...as I said in one of my first posts I really do sympathise with you on the 'view' side of things. It happened to me seven years ago...and in the midst of it all it can start to feel personal.

Can't honestly can't see the parking nightmare you envisage, because the P&D is mostly empty and even on busy days sunny it rarely fills up...and spaces are being proposed elsewhere in the town.

Less facilities at the Lake? I turn up, get changed by my car, sail, drive back in my wettie and change at home. They'll have to empty the lake to provide less! ...and I'm sure I'm not unique here....

There is only one option as I see it to redevelop the lake without _link_ing it to redevelopment elsewhere... The lake users put their money where their mouths are and raise the cash themselves...and that ain't gonna happen...Unless Bill Gates buys Liverpool FC (please Bill) moves to Caldy, gets wowed by the standard of sailing and stumps up a bit of spare cash for his newfound hobby (note to self....stop taking drugs!)

The sad reality is (-because this is the way councils work-) that this deal is largely done i.e. hotel and lake redevelopment. What's up for grabs is the detail

Ern.

Ern, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, I've made my points. The good thing is that some boundaries have now been set, ie don't block the wind or reduce parking. In my opinion I don't think that other funding options have been properly explored, there has been no evidence, as the bid process was kept secret. I'm not sure if this proposal will go through, due to strong opposition by the locals, then it's back to square one for the lake. Personally I would like to see if the local residents could get together to investigate a plan B, rather than just block the development of the lake. It's still early days.

All the best John.