This was the worst example of consultation I have ever seen or heard.

Neither the local council representative nor the developer could answer the following very simple and basic questions:

1) What value would this development add to the local West Kirby Community?

2) What percentage of the total budget would be used for the sailing school?

I would of thought the value added question would of been answered when our freinds in the council held a covert competition to find a developer?

As for not knowing how much would be needed to invest in the new sailing school is absolutly ridiculous. Lets not forget this is their selling point.

The councillor then started to go on about the lake being a world class sailing asset as well as a focal point for visitors. He had no answer when we discussed the total disrepair of the wall?

When we discussed the massive investment and transformation in Hoylake during the Golf Open and absolutley zip in West Kirby there was also silence (lets not forget the majority of visitors to this hotel may well be chaffy golfers).

To be clear: what I am not against in West Kirby is development. Quite frankly it is way overdue.

I absolutley agree that the lake could benefit from an updated sailing school.

But the lake Amenities (including and possibly more important our decrepit wall)and Hotel development are totally different issues at the opposite ends of a continuum.

I see this as a curve ball to get the hotel through planning permission (ref: question 2). Now I know we can debate the need for a budget to complete such a project (we found it for the Open) but have the council really looked for alternatives? If it has such world class potential why not the lottery fund for example?

Who in West Kirby could possibly benefit from a hotel?

Why not build a park (plant a few palm trees) or bowling green for our local aging community if we have a fixation on removing the car park. This would add value to West Kirby at very little cost.

As for the results of the poll? I never saw or heard anybody in favour of this development and I went several times.

Would you invest your money in such a company who can't answer the most basic of questions?

Right, thats my rant for the day!

Have a great weekend.

CaptainNemo wrote:
This was the worst example of consultation I have ever seen or heard.

Neither the local council representative nor the developer could answer the following very simple and basic questions:

1) What value would this development add to the local West Kirby Community?

2) What percentage of the total budget would be used for the sailing school?



Utter rubbish Steve, the whole reason so little of the detail seems to be worked out is down to how early you are seeing their ideas....

Can you seriously not see what an expensive hotel with a limited number of rooms will bring to a Town like West Kirby.


I would of thought the value added question would of been answered when our freinds in the council held a covert competition to find a developer?


Covert ? - Again Rubbish. I published details of the expected 'run off' nearly 2 years ago prompting my brother-in-law The Cookie Monster to rubbish the idea of anything ever happening. It was also all over the council website at the time.


As for not knowing how much would be needed to invest in the new sailing school is absolutly ridiculous. Lets not forget this is their selling point.

Not until they know the final designs they won't.......


But the lake Amenities (including and possibly more important our decrepit wall)and Hotel development are totally different issues at the opposite ends of a continuum.

Don't be so niave. Maybe they should be - but they are not. It quite obvious it was a case of Want the hotel ? revamp the Sailing school


Who in West Kirby could possibly benefit from a hotel?


Apart from....
- The golfers who travel from far and wide to play Royal Liverpool
- The local business's who bring guest's to the Wirral from Europe and further, but are forced to put people up in Chester and Liverpool. I used to work for one and at any one time between Tues and Thursday night we could have filled a 50 room hotel with out of town visitors.
- The Local bars and resturants where guests will spend money
- The local residents who will get coffee & restaurants


Why not build a park (plant a few palm trees) or bowling green for our local aging community if we have a fixation on removing the car park. This would add value to West Kirby at very little cost.

There are already bowling greens off the prom and a park (I even think it has a palm tree)

As for the results of the poll? I never saw or heard anybody in favour of this development and I went several times.


When I was there almost everyone expressed a positive reaction to what was being attempted so long as the design of the hotel was kept in fitting with the town. i.e not quiet so modern as some of the sketches so far.....

Steve look up the word Luddite in the dictionary (and then look in the mirror)

(or maybe you like the Pay & display and Greasy Spoon Cafe complete with plastic mr Whippy ice creams......frankly West Kirby deserves better !!!


Fight , Fight, Fight
(I just can't resist it at times........)

Ernie,

Do you really believe the design will be in keeping with the town, they did not present one view of the hotel on the large boards, probably to avoid the issue and to make sure they did not upset too many people. The architects they have selected are from the wackiest end of the spectrum. Caparpenter's know this an have even omitted to mention, on http://www.westkirbysail.co.uk/ that they were formed from the Will Alsop practice where Christophe Egret was design director for 10 years.

Check out the stirling prize winning Peckham Library on google images, Christophe Egret was project architect. Not sure that this sort of _style_ will work on the prom. Maybe this is what David Brewitt (Hope Street hotel), is reffering to when he states that the hotel may win a stirling prize.



Life after alsop http://www.building.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=3061346

As for the openness of the competition, can you provide details of any of the other entries?

Regarding Ernie's Comment

"When I was there almost everyone expressed a positive reaction to what was being attempted so long as the design of the hotel was kept in fitting with the town. i.e not quiet so modern as some of the sketches so far....."

When I visited, there was a lot of local's that did not see why WK needs a hotel or like the design _base_d on the Sketches. The developer was not sure of the design when questioned and said that the model as a very basic in its representation.

The Sketches of the Hotel and the sailing school where basic, they reminded me of "A Level Art Student" work, apogees’ Mr Egret but that what I think of the work I saw.

In my opinion, all this so called competition was, was an Art Contest, where is the basic information regarding, budget/funding, timings and resource for this project. My impression was that none of this had been considered. Come to think of it where were the other entries?

When I talk to the one of the ‘developers’ he contradicted himself regarding own would run the car parking and the Sailing School, he didn’t have a clue how the Partnership with the council will work.

Regarding CaptionNemo's (Steve's) Comment

"2) What percentage of the total budget would be used for the sailing school?"

I think CaptionNemo is correct, the developer should be able to cost the project, as at the end of the day they are in it to make money. If I where appointed by the council, as Carpenter Investments have, to create a new sailing school and hotel, (according to their website), I’d have an estimate of what it would cost.

I’d like to know why you would knock down the garages in front of the sailing school, as they seem to be in good repair. I’m sure the T15’s would rather have one of them thatn the Container they currently use.

My two penny’s worth, hope it make sense

With the greatest of respect - you are all missing the point.

Carpenter Investments do not have a contract to build all of this... What they have have is a 12 month exclusivity deal with the council at the end of which they need to then put forward fully costed plans and a planning application (if they wish to proceed....).

This is why,

a. You are seeing numerous ideas/sketches regarding the hotel design as they fumble around with ideas and public feedback. You should all be very happy you have the opportunity to do this and not have it presented as a fete a' complete as the planning app goes in.

On a personal note, I'm a traditionalist, and can get rather offended by modern design. You have my unreserved support on getting a fitting design.

b. You ain't gonna to cost a movable feast. But I'll do it for you about as well as they can for now...

Hotel will take up at least 80% of total budget _base_d on size and mass/volume of building and it will also be fitted out to a higher spec than the Lake building, so lets say 85%:15%.


They have an overall budget they want to spend. If they believe they cannot get it all (and that is both lake building & hotel no matter how much Steve protests) built within that budget and with a set amount of local support (they know they'll never get everybody...) they'll not submit an application at the end of the 12 months.

Cost's will only begin to emerge as designs are firming up otherwise

Now as to whether the selection process for the exclusivity was fair I can't comment. If you want to get into a debate about honesty and integrity of local politics I suspect we could all be onto a loser there.....

Ernie,

As the consultation is in the hands of the developers, for all we know that could be the end of public meetings. Will they be having another survey once they can show images of the finalised building to the public, or will the initial survey results be used to as part justify a planning application?

The consultation process needs to be completely transparent, as there is a confict of interest, the council is giving away its (our) own land and thay are approving the application that will be built on that land. This could be merely be a rubber stamping exercise.